i think hardware support under linux is still touch and go, especially with some of the more obscure hardware. support for webcams have gotten tons better, but they can still be a pain in the ass sometimes.
me
· 1 year ago
What if you want to install something not in the package manager ?
Windows beats Linus hands down.
david_e
· 1 year ago
It's not true that windows (NT) was built as a single user operating system: in fact it supported a really complex set of security permissions since the early days (much more involved then the standard permissions set on Linux). It is true that it is usually run as a single user operating system on the desktop, mainly because of poorly written software that needs a lot of permissions to properly work. GNU/Linux is more secure because it's better written, open sourced, peer reviewed code. Also Linux is a big target for malicious hackers as it has a big penetration in the server market and it's used to host many web sites...
Rami Taibah
· 1 year ago
@ "me" 95% of the cases what you want will be in the package manager, you can add repos as you wish. And in the case that it still not there, there will probably be a package (deb or rpm) that can be installed by double clicking. Finally if all fails you will need to install from source code.
Oh and btw I just love how you just compared a person with an OS ;)
@42gems, yes there is pain, there is always pain no matter what the platform is, refer to the link I provided of my printer experience on XP. Linux isn't utopia, it's almost there :P
Chris Cotter
· 1 year ago
@me i have installed many programs that are not in the repositories. Just last night I installed X-Plane, both Windows (Wine) and Linux versions.
Windows is different than Windows. It operates differently than Windows. File systems and partitions function differently too. If you start using Linux, it becomes much easier to get around the more you adjust to the changes.
I don't think that just saying Windows beats Linux hands down is a valid enough point to just say and then leave. Most Windows users have been taught that just because it is the most prominent, it is the best. I disagree.
amrush
· 1 year ago
HEHE .. yeah that's me up there .. I'm a linux gamer .. and WINE is the best application there is on linux ..
forza linux !!
xutre
· 1 year ago
Linux not sexy?? Sure it is! Linux can be: dressed up, blinged, made to look provocative, given dimensional personality; individuals have differing perceptions of what they consider sexy, so it really comes down to how much freedom the user has to alter the look of their desktop. The ability do do so in some individual's eyes could also be considered 'sexy'!
What about the myth that Linux users are rare! Windows is now all the safer because people are using Linux; 99.9% are just totally unaware that they are doing so. The uptake in broadband connections has seen an overwelming increase in DSL modems, and which OS do these modems use for their firewall/router? Linux! Having a dial-up connection used to mean large event logs of PC based firewalls; with a firewalled DSL modem, those same event logs are completely empty. Perhaps the oxymoron is that most internet users perceive that such protection is entirely due to the quality of their XP/Vista based firewall.
he_the_great
· 1 year ago
For the most part you are correct. As I have already righten my views on many of these I will just let you read them from my website.
"What if you want to install something not in the package manager ?"
When would I want to do that? I've been using Linux for over 3 years and only when I was using Fedora did I need to go outside of the package manager and that was just for my TV card. My needs are greater than the average Internet/eBay/email/Documents-for-Church user. I use PCLinuxOS and for two years I have never had the need to go outside of the repository/Synaptic combination. You will always find people who need to download directly but they are not the everyday users.
With Windows you have no choice but to download directly from all the various vendors. As far as software management, there is nothing about Windows that rocks.
Daeng Bo
· 1 year ago
RE: #5 No games There's a list of almost 40 easy-to-install games (mostly using Wine 1.0) that work with no hassle and no configuration. The list is set up to make it easy for your relatives/friends to find what they want. I'm adding about 2 a day, but could use help if anyone wants to partner with me.
Went to Linux server for my own website, got use to command line, haven't looked back, to use ubuntu server is to love it. software depository has it all over windows, also have compiled stuff for my own web site, never was anything easier...love it
Parminder
· 1 year ago
Have somebody ever played DOOM on linux? It works excellent, and in windows, it sucks!!!!!!
bsdgroup
· 1 year ago
1st. you are a n00b and that is why you hate linux 2nd. you are probably limited man with special needs, so that`s the reason why is so hard to install something on linux in your case. 3rd. next time don`t be so dumb and post stupid comments on this great blog...
Bray
· 1 year ago
I saw a comment up there that said the following: "What if you want to install something not in the package manager ?
Windows beats Linus hands down."
It's as easy as "sudo apt-get [software]" Or in my case "pacman [software]" since I use Arch.
Chances are you can find whatever your looking for with apt-get or pacman. If you can't find it, it probably doesn't exist.
Here's an example: I wanted to install KDE (a graphical user interface. It's briefly talked about up above) simply because my eyes were getting tired of the command line. So all I did was "pacman kde4" and it was soon downloaded and installed, and worked. Honestly, how much simpler can you get?
Uselessbrain.com
· 1 year ago
I have to agree with 42gems. Sometimes driver installation doesnt make sense ;-). Anyway nice article.
RC
· 1 year ago
Visio.
RC
xen
· 1 year ago
Great read. Think this is the best Linux myth debunking article I've read in a long while.
Rob
· 1 year ago
"First of all, let’s face it, YOU are the weakest link in any OS."
I totally agree, but how is this an argument for or against Linux? If I am naive enough to click on a random file promising pictures of nude celebrities in Windows, why would I not be naive enough to click on a questionable file on my Linux desktop and then enter the admin password when prompted?
"Finally, just the fact that Linux is Open Source means that more eyeballs can see bugs and vulnerabilities making it easier to patch. Any coder in his/her mom’s basement could issue a fix for the community."
To play devil's advocate, any coder in his mom's basement could see bugs and vulnerabilities in source code and create an exploit for them.
Item # 2 is an extremely broad generalisation, and I could make similar generalisations about Linux: Suppose the app you want to install is not in any of the repositories. Ok, do a Google search and find an RPM. Oh wait, I am using SuSE and this RPM was built for Red Hat; it won't install. I am not saavy enough to avoid installing Windows apps that are stripped down trial versions which infect my system with spyware, so installing a program from a source tarball is definitely beyond me.
"It would be a totally different ball game if these PC’s had no OS on them. Windows wouldn’t come out all that superior, I would even wager that Linux would probably do a better job."
So in other words, you would have to install the OS, and then possibly install drivers for hardware that was not auto-detected? You'd be in the same boat regardless of which OS.
"I am sure when it comes to community other proprietary operating systems do envy us!"
There are also countless blogs, forums etc devoted to Windows and Mac OS X. If I run into a situation on one of those platforms that is unfamiliar to me, I can Google it and find an answer. It's really no different.
"Long story short, after around 2 hours of trying to get an HP printer to work on XP, I gave up and plugged into an Ubuntu Linux Eee PC, it got recognized in 30 seconds!"
According to one of the comments in the original post about the printer, your mom's computer was displaying symptoms of being infected with a virus. So if you had connected the printer to another Windows machine that was not infected, most likely it would have been just as easy as it was with your Ubuntu box.
Wraiyth
· 1 year ago
Only reason I dislike Linux is because the things I want to do generally can't be done on Linux. Regardless of how easier or prettier or whatever Linux might be, if you're doing development work, it has to be done for the masses. Once I can run Visual Studio, Steam, HL2, UT3 etc etc all on Linux, use them all unhibited just like I could on Windows, then sure, Linux probably deserves a look. Until then, Windows all the way.
Harman
· 1 year ago
I tried Kubuntu and Mandriva a year ago, and I didn't know anything. If only they came with a built-in OS that covers the basics. It was pretty complicated, especially the command line and stuff. It's not that I'm too dumb to work Linux, I just don't know how, and I don't from where I'm supposed to get the info from.
Harish
· 1 year ago
@Rob “It would be a totally different ball game if these PC’s had no OS on them. Windows wouldn’t come out all that superior, I would even wager that Linux would probably do a better job.” Linux comes preinstalled with drivers for most hardwares unlike windows where u have to download a seperate driver for your monitor, graphic card, chip set , keyboard,etc. When you install Linux you have a better chance of having a working system with almost everything u need than when u install a Window
rhY
· 1 year ago
While I agree with most of your article, you ignored the number one source of games on ANY computer: Emulators.
Not only do I play tons of Super Nintendo, Nintendo, Playstation, Nintendo 64, Gameboy Advance, Sega, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, and Nintendo Gamecube games, but some of the Wii titles are starting to show graphics now too.
The other game you should always mention is Urban Terror. It's free, it's better than counter strike, and it runs great on Linux.
rhY
· 1 year ago
One more thing. I also play Civ 2 in an XP VM thanks to Virtualbox. Even stuff that doesn't run under wine can sometimes run great with a little elbow grease.
klas
· 1 year ago
I use both win (mostly under vmware) and linux and whilst I like the list the reality that always annoys the frig out of me includes:
1) fonts suck compared to windows. Yes I've fiddled endlessly with different fonts, settings etc. but they suck, face it.
2) If you update your kernel in any way you are likely to break something that will be a heck of a lots harder to fix that something breaking in windows.
3) Windows is just better for games. I use linux for work, windows for play. What's the big deal with that?
4) Installing software is easy 'IF' it is in your package manager. If it isn't, joe average is screwed.
Who cares anyway, just use linux AND windows for whichever gets the job done best.
Cypress
· 1 year ago
Excellent piece. I used to try to explain the same things to my friends years ago.
Anders Lund
· 1 year ago
1) Wait until Linux get users that runs as root and are clicking on everything they run into. :)
2) Installing applications on Windows is not that hard. Download the setup.exe and execute it. If your internet connection is bad, just maybe have to redownload it again - but I can't remember when was the last time I had such problem - even with 1 GB+ downloads over my Wifi connection. Oh wait - I had some problems a year ago with wifi, but that was a Linux. :)
I had a package manager under Fedora break shortly after installing Fedora. After trying to fix it for some hours (rebuilding indexes and other things suggested on forums), I finally gave up and reinstalled Fedora.
7) Windows has a huge community. Searching for an error on Google will give results.
8) If a Linux installation fail to install a hardware on a system, I could just give up right away. On Windows? Go to the hardware vendors website and download and install the driver. Simple things as getting a mouse to work as I wanted (scroll and forward/back buttons) took many hours searching Google and Ubuntu forums.
Windows Vista SP1 has great hardware support and can often download a driver from Windows Update, when it comes to some unknown piece of hardware. Actually I installed and setup a Media Center (including TV card and tune in channels, not sorting them) in less than an hour with Windows Vista and Media Center on a custom build PC. Windows downloaded and installed the TV tuner drivers automatically. The very same system I had tried getting MythTV to run on for days, getting only very bad results. Tried using different tutorials and Linux distros (even dedicated MythTV).
Fact is, when everything works fine Linux and Windows works great. When Linux fil to install some hardware, you often have to do "wired stuff" to get it to work. Windows often has a setup.exe to install a driver, because the hardware vendor has created such driver for Windows. Blame the hardware vendors if you want to, but that's not what the user will see - they will se a broken OS.
I wish for a Open Software world - but when a Linux user that has experience in using Linux and knows some of the fixes / shortcuts writes and article like this, I just have to response.
Sorry Rami - my 10+ different Linux installations with different distros have send me back to Windows again and again. I just don't experience the ease you describe here.
Rob
· 1 year ago
@Harish "unlike windows where u have to download a seperate driver for your monitor, graphic card, chip set , keyboard,etc."
I've installed Windows many times on various computers, and never had to track down drivers for my "chip set, keyboard,etc." At the worst I'd have to download drivers for video card and sound card, which never took me more than a few minutes.
Rob
· 1 year ago
@Anders Lund "If a Linux installation fail to install a hardware on a system, I could just give up right away. On Windows? Go to the hardware vendors website and download and install the driver." You certainly *could* give up right away, and if that's what you choose you definitely will not find a solution. You also *could* give up right away when you have a problem installing hardware under Windows, but apparently you choose not to do so. Maybe this is an indicator of why you have better luck using Windows?
"When Linux fil to install some hardware, you often have to do “wired stuff” to get it to work."
Such as? Finding a driver and installing it? What is "wired" about that? That's the same thing you would do under Windows. Ten years ago this might have been true; getting some hardware to work might have required a kernel recompile, but these days it's a stretch. Unless you have some exotic hardware, you're unlikely to run into anything like that.
Where the OP is making sweeping generalisations about Windows' problems, you are making sweeping generalisations about Linux. Nothing in either system is perfect; there are always going to be cases where some software does not work correctly, or someone has trouble getting their hardware to work. It's just the nature of technology.
YSoSerious
· 1 year ago
I think that the story about not knowing anything to installing Linux on a pc with existing partitions is difficult to digest. For a person with an empty hard disk its probably not that difficult. Also, driver's could give you nightmares where you finally are so fed up of the darn thing that you probably think of moving back to Windows or whatever.
I wouldnt say that it is simple, but it has been made simpler than it was 10 years hence. Just for the sake of the article I believe that what you say is kind of your personal opinion and since no body is to judge the same as its upto any body to agree/disagree with your opinions.
I guess i agree with you on some of your points and disagree on others on account of over-optimism...
MrW0mb1e
· 1 year ago
Huh? Linux is not sexy?
Geeky IS the new sexy...
Anders Lund
· 1 year ago
@Rob "You certainly *could* give up right away" ... but I did not. But I could just have done this, because of the problems I have had. Problems being graphics and sound drivers. Only bad to no result.
"Such as? Finding a driver and installing it? What is “wired” about that?" Download packages, type in weird commands, that meant I had to download some more stuff... as I said, weird stuff, that I can't remember because of its weirdness. On Windows - download "driversetup.exe" .. next, next, next, restart, done.
"you are making sweeping generalisations about Linux" No I describe what I have experienced with Linux. Not ten years ago, a couple of years ago to less than a year ago. At the most, I used Linux for about a month and a half, before I went back to Windows. To much work to get the things to work the way I wanted.
Rob
· 1 year ago
@Anders Lund "Download packages, type in weird commands, that meant I had to download some more stuff… as I said, weird stuff, that I can’t remember because of its weirdness."
I see. By "weird" do you mean you had to cast a spell or something like that? Did it involve sacrificing a chicken?
"At the most, I used Linux for about a month and a half, before I went back to Windows."
I imagine someone who had only been using Windows or Mac OS X for a month and a half might find it daunting to do a thing like install new hardware, or install the entire system from scratch, etc.
Also in your original post you mention "my 10+ different Linux installations with different distros..." All that in about a month and a half? Wow. You must not have spent a significant amount of time with any one installation.
For someone who is not making generalisations, you are being very vague about what kind of issues you had... "weird stuff, that I can’t remember because of its weirdness" sounds very general to me.
David Muir
· 1 year ago
@Bray Err the comment was about installing something *NOT* in the repositories. In this case you either pray that they've got debs or rpms, otherwise you have to compile.
@Richard Chapman For those of us using distros like Debian and Ubuntu that don't have rolling updates, you will often find that the software in the repositories are several generations old (especially with Debian). There have been several times where I've had to install stuff that's not in the repositories because the version in the repos is buggy, too old, or not that good. A good example would be Pidgin. When I was running Gutsy, Pidgin kept crashing MSN conversations whenever someone would 'nudge' me. Sure enough the issue was fixed in current version. But the Pidgin developers don't seem to like debs and only offer RPMs. I was then told about www.getdeb.net, which had it, but I then had to uninstall pidgin and all associated libraries before I could install.
If installing software was so simple, then why there a need for the LSB project (which has so far hasn't done much)? Installing software on Linux is only simple as long as the software has been built for the distro (and in some cases, the version) you're using.
As for software that is lacking. A good IM client that handles webcams would be a start. Everyone seems to think Pidgin is the best thing since sliced bread, but they don't have any plans for including video support. So that leaves me with Ekiga (oh wait, that doesn't support any of the common IM protocols) and Skype (which dies for me every 15 minutes or so).
In many cases "myth" 8 is actually a fact. In my experience, Linux works great on old hardware, but does not work well with new hardware (if at all). Bought a nice Gigabyte mobo a while back with the intention of converting my friend to Ubuntu. I couldn't even get it to boot and ended up having to install Windows. And to get my printer set up, I ended up having to set it up as a shared printer on my windows box. Suspiciously, every example I see about how easy it is to set up a printer mentions an HP printer...
I think I'm done with my rant now...
Anders Lund
· 1 year ago
@Rob "By “weird” do you mean you had to cast a spell or something" I don't remeber the command. It involed downloading and installing some sound related files. Making sure they where loaded into the kernel, editing some configuration files, making changes to a make file, before starting it. I don't remeber the details. Playing different types of video and from the web was troublesome for me as well, requiring me to download plugins and players that could play some video, but not all and often did a bad job of this.
"I imagine someone who had only been using Windows or Mac OS X for a month and a half...." No, I have tried it over a longer period... what I meant was that I have tried over a couple of years, with my last try a under a year ago. The longest time I have had a Linux distribution running (Fedora I believe) was a month and a half.
Sorry for sounding general about the "weird stuff", but I tried many different things from allot of different forums, including the forums of the different distributions I used. I did not write in these comments (for this article) to get tech support.
I am not attacking Linux - I am attacking this article, that makes everything seems totally easy, when in fact I have yet to experience this. I think I have done more attempts than others even would have bothered with.
Jim McDish
· 1 year ago
Dude, I love it. That little penguin dude is so cute.
@David Muir, Installation is no different this way across OSes. You hope there's a package for your OS. If there isn't, you're going to have to go through a lot of trouble.
Windows: If there's no .exe or .msi, what are you going to do? Compile?
OS X: I recently saw a HowTo about getting wget compiled and installed.
Jeff
· 1 year ago
I think you have to consider that you wrote this article defending Linux as an experienced Linux user. Another comentor noted that it just is not as easy as you note it. My big problem with Linux right now (and why I had to abandon it after a year-long experiment) is that it does 50% of what I need without a hitch, 40% fairly-well, and 10% it cannot do. With Windows, the ration is closer to 80% perfectly / 20% fair and 0% not at all. The "20% fair" grade for Windows has given Linux an opportunity, but Linux's "10% failure" keeps it from taking the next step.
davemc
· 1 year ago
RE: Harman
"I tried Kubuntu and Mandriva a year ago, and I didn’t know anything. If only they came with a built-in OS that covers the basics. It was pretty complicated, especially the command line and stuff. It’s not that I’m too dumb to work Linux, I just don’t know how, and I don’t from where I’m supposed to get the info from."
I understand your position, and I do agree that trying out Linux is scary for the first time or two. Using Linux goes totally against the grain of what most of us grew up with, and you almost feel like your "cheating". Try to keep in mind that this is a situation which occurs whenever there is a monopoly on any market. Since Microsoft has the monopoly, and a strangle hold on the industry, it is the only OS most of us grew up with. Give Linux a serious try and most people end up loving it. Information about Linux is abundant using Google searches, Distro forums, Wiki's, Online Documentation, etc. Distro's like Mandriva, Ubuntu, PCLos, and MEPIS have turned Desktop Linux into an experience which is far superior to that of Windows XP or Windows Vista in really every way which really counts. Sure, there are some few things which Windows can do and Linux struggles with, like some DirectX Games, and there are many things which Linux can do and Windows absolutely cannot, like built in Security, Visual appeal/Eye candy (Compiz), multi taskability (more streamlined system resourcing), Multi-user modality (multiple user architecture), ease of application install (Package Management), multiple Window Managers (KDE, GNOME, XFCE, E16/16, Fluxbox, etc.), multiple kernel options (2.4 and 2.6 varients), INTEROPERABILITY as a fundamental goal from the very start (xen, vmware, virtualbox) very much unlike Windows. Those are just a very small list of some of the things Linux can do that Windows cant -- There are more! Much more! -- but those should at least get you started.
Kevin
· 1 year ago
This article won't do anything to convince Windows/Mac users to switch to Linux. While I agree with pretty much every single point, the writer describes things in XP in the worst possible light. This will cause people who are unfamiliar with Linux to simply assume that the writer is oversimplifying things with respect to Linux, and subsequently cause the reader to distrust any arguments made in favor of Linux.
That said, I believe this article serves to gratify those who use Linux into giving themselves a big pat on the back, but fails to convince windows users to switch to Linux. I would really like to see an objective article written, perhaps one that has tutorials for both XP and Linux (for comparison purposes).
I personally think that Linux is ready for prime-time use and could potentially overtake Windows, but some work needs to be done on the PR side of things. Microsoft has billions of dollars to throw at marketing (yet still manages to lose public favor), while Linux really has no marketing. I really think an objective article could potentially convert some of the less tech savvy people, and subsequently kick-off a word-of-mouth marketing campaign. Also, it might ease some of the intimidation factor of switching to Linux for the first time. After all, Linux has a reputation for being the OS of the ultra-tech savvy, and that kind of reputation certainly won't get the average computer user to switch to it.
Also, please don't take my critique of the writer's style as being overly critical. While I dislike some of the elements found in this article, I'm greatly appreciative that articles like this are being written. I just want to see the best for computer users and the Linux community alike, and my stated opinions above are things that I think will help that goal be realized.
Rami Taibah
· 1 year ago
@Rob There has been a lot of discussion back and forth, I hope I could adequately address all your points. 1-It's not really a point for or against Linux, all I was saying that currently Linux users are more savvy than Windows. If the situation was reversed then I believe that I can't claim such a claim. As it is, because Linux users are more savvy it's less prone...thats all.
2-True, and it could be exploited, but it would be patched by someone else as soon as the word gets out. Don't think one could claim that in closed source.
3-Yes true, I have done that before, but still Linux has the head start of 95% of software already in repos. Windows has 0%, package management is non-existent.
4-Yes that's what I am saying, and it doesn't conflict with what you are saying. All I said that Linux would probably do a better job in auto-detection. Harish already tried to explain that to you :)
5-The difference is, and I have been on both sides of the camp, is that on the Open Source camp you feel that people are willing to help, you can feel the enthusiasm. Also I always felt that Windows forums, help is more like stabs in the dark, since it's closed and error reporting is crap. I don't know maybe I am biased, but thats my experience.
6-Doesn't negate the fact that the installation process was a pain in the ass. Why should a user tolerate his/her hardware not working because there is a virus but not tolerate it because the need to download some package or tweak a bit here or there?
Anyways, I do not claim to be an authority, I am merely arguing from my own personal experience. And whether I am correct or wrong, I hope I will learn something new.
@Wraiyth Fortunately I do not use that stuff, and quite honestly I don't know what they are, so I really can't argue.
@Harman: Yes I think that documentation in Linux sometimes need to be toned down a bit, in a lot of cases the documentation is way too comprehensive, a simple thing you are trying to figure out gets lost in all the detail.
@rHy: once again I am a console gamer, so I wouldn't know :D
@klas: 1-Huh what are you talking about? I am totally content with my fonts. Do you mean fonts in Gimp and/or OpenOffice, or just regular GUI fonts? Because if it's the latter I am totally content!
2-If you break the kernel, just roll back to your older one. No biggie. Do whatever you did again. And besides kernel updates are done by your package manager so one shouldn't have a problem. If you do it manually, then you are probably good enough and know what your doing.
3-Never claimed that Linux is at par to Windows when it comes to gaming. All I said that Linux gaming is possible, contrary to popular belief
4-95% of the apps an average joe wants would be in the repos
@Anders Lund
1-Won't happen, distros usually make sure that it doesn't. 2-I didn't say it's hard, its just irritating. Anybody can browse and click, the process just takes longer, than a package manager. 3-In general out of the box detection, Linux is better. Windows has the advantage that the vendors providing the drivers. I know this doesn't concern the average user, but tell me which would fare better on two exact systems with no Internet connection? Anyways Rob has offered a valid question regarding this point. Why? 4-Thanks Anders for your comments I really appreciate it, but I am anything but an experienced Linux user. I switched to Linux in 2006 and never looked back. I can't code one line of code. However I am enthusiastic about Linux, and that has propelled me a lot to learn. I tried to make this article as simple as possible, if you notice I even explained some stuff like package manager and what not because I had non-linux users in mind.
@Rob (again) I might have made some sweeping generalizations, but I made them to prove a point. For example in the hardware problem, I did not mean that the hardware in Windows is crap because my HP didn't work on XP, but rather every OS has it's problems, but with one it's tolerated and the other isn't
@YSoSerious, Why is it so hard to believe? Actually that story has been part of my About page for so long, so obviously I didn't make it up for this article. All I had was some SUSE CD's and a Linux Format Magazine that took me through the steps, the trickiest part was of course partitions, but I got through. I don't see why its hard to believe. LOL ya I might be a tad too optimistic ;)
@Anders Lund (Again) Actually if you download a package you probably can just double click on it ;). Anyways why is the CLI not tolerated while the Registry is I wonder?
@Jeff, I am not all the experienced to be honest, I have been on Linux for 2 years or 3 max! However I gave it more than a month or two just like any other OS. Anybody migrating from Windows to Mac would get turned off. However they are expected to stick because they probably forked $1000. With Linux no one is sticking around because there is no financial loss, then immediately judged.
charles
· 1 year ago
I like how you use ONE example to prove a point.
The truth is that MOST hardware will work with XP straight out of the box with no need to install ANY drivers. Most of the issues that users have are because of conflicts or crap they shouldn't have installed in the first place.
I have a Toshiba laptop that is only a few years old. When I got my new laptop, I used the old one to play on. First I install XP Media Center on it (from an MSDN subscription). It worked great, right out of the box. Recognized all of my hardware. The only thing I had to install in additon to XP was the software from Toshiba to support my hardware buttons. The I heard about freevo and decided it would be fun to try. I installed ubuntu and I actually have to say that I was impressed with how easy the install was and how quickly it went. I was also impressed with how mmuch of my hardware work right out of the box. However, the one thing that refused to work was my s-video output. After spending many hours following the directions from the "linux community" (who, btw, seem to thing that everyone knows how to compile packages and such) I decided that it just wasn't worth the effort. Linux has come a long, long way since I first tried to use it, but it is still far from a "easy to use" OS.
Leandro
· 1 year ago
Well, I'm quite a Linux power user, and I have not logged into a windows machine for some months now, but I cannot agree with all that.
I think the package manager is a great thing, but much must be done in the search algorithms and the description of the packages. Generally you must know the name of the package you want to install, and you have to have some knowledge to know which one of the thirty options is the correct one. This is not always evident, and for "mother" users is quite a pain... In general terms a google search provides much better guesses of what you want. Many, many times, I found myself discovering which was the package that fits my needs in google before installing it in linux. Therefore, I finally have to do all windows users do, and then go back to my system and install the package.
However, the thing that prevents me from simply removing my windows partition is the office stuff. OpenOffice and alternatives still are far behind MSOffice, in some simple things, which I would not call "functionalities". For example, draw a large circle in the presentation package of OOffice, and put it with a quite thick line. It becomes an horrible segmented circle. I cannot do my presentations with this degree of renderization.
Other things, like Pidgin, for example, are nice and they are ok for me, but we cannot fool ourselves thinking that they have the same functionalities as the windows counterparts (they have indeed some others, but they lack a lot of stuff).
geebers
· 1 year ago
I've successfully converted several people to linux by giving them a few different "live CD's" to try. I tell them that the CD's wont touch their windows hard drive so they're more williing to try them out. They usually call me back and say things like, "I like it so far, but how do you ....". These people are usually not tied to any windows-only apps so the open source apps in the repos suit them well for the most part. Windows power users will most likely be the ones who stay with windows. And they should really. Joe sixpack PC users and businesses are the ones who have the most to gain by using linux and OSS applications. BTW, installing windows from CD??? S U C K S!!!! Installing a linux distro from a liveCD??? E A S Y!!!! Just my 2 cents.
Snorkle
· 1 year ago
Been using Linux for 7 years, Mandrake 7.00. now on ubuntu 8.4 can't remember how to use windoze. Got a 4Gb SDHC card, windoze choked and died, was told it wouldn't work with Linux no support, worked first time got loads of files on it. Divx, Flac, MP3, Ogg.....don't have to work with overlapping windows... just setup 4 desktops, got No 1 with the interweb. No 2 with Rhythmbox. No 3 runs Gimp. No 4 Open Office Word can't fault it... its all FREE it works on older kit that windoze would drag to a halt with its bloat ware.
Anders Lund
· 1 year ago
@Rami
1) I know Linux distributions a pretty good at keeping users from being root. I spuspect that Microsoft will make the same thing in the next Windows version. We have seen the first step with User Account Control. By the next version of Windows, some more programmers make their program work with non-admin rights.
2) Irritating for you - normal for me. Yes, it's easy to have a package manager to do the job. But as someone else pointed out, the package managers don't always have the latest version of a program / component. This was actually a problem I ran into once. I don't remember it to be a virtal thing in the setup, but it was irritating.
3) In general, I don't want to setup a computer, when I have no connection to the Internet.
4) I hope that you don't have to code anything to become an expert on Linux. :)
5) The Windows registry is a very hated portion of the Windows system. :-)
tensigh
· 1 year ago
I think some of these are opinions rather than myths. I've had some Linux installs that are nightmares, and I've had worse hardware support. My wireless card in my laptop constantly drops connections whereas the WIndows partition works much more reliably. So when I say that hardware drivers don't work that well, it's an opinion based on (albeit anectodal) evidence.
Todd Partridge
· 1 year ago
I hate listening too all the FUD about Linux drivers. Now A days they run dam good and newer models get an update about pretty soon. yeah, If you want Linux its a good idea to shop about for the right computer. MacBooks, T61... all word right out of the box for most ppl. It's been my experience that new high-end computers in windows often don't have mature drivers either.
tracyanne
· 1 year ago
quote:Distros like SUSE, Ubuntu, and Fedora, are so easy to install it would literally take around 30 minutes to get it up and ready.
You forgot to mention that Mandriva Linux is one of the easiest Linux distributions to install. You also forgot to mention that Mandriva Linux actually installs on a wider range of hardware than the three distributions you did mention. Yous neglected, also, to mention that Mandriva Linux is also easier to use than Ubuntu (which is marketed as the easy to use Linux), and that Mandriva Linux has been like this for the 10 years of it's existence (Mandriva Linux was originally call Mandrake Linux).
Mandriva Linux was developed with ease of use and ease of installation in mind, and while many other distributions have caught up to it in this respect, it hs, by virtue of the GUI tools, that no other Linux distribution has (drakconf), much easier for a new to Linux person to use, as unlike Ubuntu, Mandriva Linux does not require that a first time Linux user learn CLI commands.
So please when you are writing about easy to use Linux distributions, don't forget Mandriva Linux is still probably the easiest Linux to use, for new Linux users, and that Mandriva who build a technically excellent distribution in Mandriva Linux, are very very serious about ease of use.
Trevor
· 1 year ago
Typos: with it’s Unix roots --> with its Unix roots to it’s full potential --> to its full potential
OldLinuxGeek
· 1 year ago
The only thing I really disagree with is your opening comment: "When it comes to Linux there are 3 kinds of people, those who never heard of it, those who are afraid of it, and those who hate it and spread falsities about it." Ummmm...aren't there FOUR kinds of people? What about us Linux users?!
Baldy
· 1 year ago
There are even more kinds of people - what about experienced computer users who are not afraid of Linux, don't hate it, but just don't like it? You're too quick to be dismissive of people who don't share your viewpoint.
JAFO
· 1 year ago
Mandriva is the BEST distro for the newbie.......just installed current Spring 2008 on 6 year old Toshiba laptop 1115-S103 as dual boot with XP...everything worked out of box...
icem4n
· 1 year ago
I really want to support this article, but I can't because it is half full of misleading garbage. LINUX has come aLONG way, but it is no where near as easy to deal with as Windows. Security-wise Windows gets patched faster (and in some cases lessoften) then other OS's.
Arguing that LINUX is a great desktop platform coming from a NOS is also an interesting approach. I'd say from the security paragraph POV you'd still want Windows as your Desktop and LINUX for servers.
If the reply preceding my reply is for me, then i want to tell you that the reply was to tell people that games do work fine on linux!
Probably you misunderstood it! never mind, great post!
Marc
· 1 year ago
Football Manager? You should have mentioned that World of Warcraft works with Wine.
For a serious gamer, Windows is the only option. If you don't play games, there is no reason to use Windows.
otheos
· 1 year ago
There is one big proble with Linux. It's not productive.
Don't get me wrong. You sit down to get some work done and all you end up doing is playing around with the OS instead. Great fun but unproductive.
Seriously, I had to go back to XP to actually produce some work and left Linux for leisure on my spare box. Couple of days later I swapped OSs and boxes. My "production" XP box is now the spare one, sort of the working suit, the one that you do feel bad using, and the Linux box, now upgraded to the latest available (in my house at least) hardware is the enjoyable part.
Like I said though, my linux box hardly produces any work. Even non professional work I mean. I know how to rip a DVD and trascode it to divx but I'd rather have it done on the XP box and play a bit with iptables on the linux box.
I use Debian Linux for almost a year. At work, I use it 95 % of my time. I love it. BUT...if you can show me ONE music production software that equals at least FL Studio, you get the Nobel. Don't tell me about LMMS, Rezound or similar shitz! Those are for 8 year old kids. And Wine is not capable of running FL with 100 % capabilities and low audio latency. I repeat: I love Debian as it is, but cannot say it has it all.
Unix Dude
· 1 year ago
Totally right Linux is for people who like free stuff! Linux is for people who are smart enough to try something new Linux simpler one you got the hang of it Linux has a community of a couple million members that are willing to help you when you are in need.
Eric O LEBIGOT (EOL)
· 1 year ago
"I can say that Linux would work more than 90% of hardware out there! Could Windows or Apple claim that? I don’t know, I stopped being a Windows power user for quite sometime."
Apple can probably claim a hardware compatibility close to 100%: since they build most of the hardware themselves, there is virtually no hardware problem with OS X on any Apple machine. As for 3rd party hardware, the fact that they work with OS X is virtually always made explicit.
otheos
· 1 year ago
There is a basic misconception about linux.
Linux is simple. But simple doesn't necessarily mean easy.
People tend to confuse easy with simple.
For example. It is simple to type a well syntaxed command in cli that performes a sequence of actions that would otherwise require opening a few windows, browsing their tabs, reading all the descriptions, checking a multiple of tick boxes, and click apply.
Simple but not easy, as typing the command in cli requires you to know exactly what you want to do, to have learned the syntax and all the programs involved in the actions you need to perform.
Conversely you follow an obvious procedure by opening a window, seeing what it does and chosing what you want to do.
The difference between windows and Linux is that the former is easy but not simple, while the latter is definitely simple and if needed can also be made easy.
ubuntuUser
· 1 year ago
You can preach as much as you want. As long as i plugin my HP Printer into a PC running Linux (ubuntu) and it doesn't work and i try the same for mac but this time IT DOES jsut work. (not to mention webcam or scanner issues...)
And again i know its a user specific opinion but: i don't miss the console AT ALL when doing thing at my mac. ( so nice to drag and drop applciations and to install/uninstall them this way :) For the pure enduser which doesn't want to "administrate" his OS but just "use" it, Linux has still way too go. But its on it way , where its leading we'll see about that. BTW: OpenOffice is really nice ( and runs on my mac too :D )
so go on preaching i know how far linux is and so i stick with my mac :P
Mohammad
· 1 year ago
I am using Linux as desktop, I'm agree with all you said, except the package manager and installing new applications in linux is sometimes very very very hard and also about the look, the look in windows is better, bc configuring the X11 to use the best of lcd, graphic card, fonts, .... is almost impossible. Linux is for geeks.
Sumesh
· 1 year ago
Spot on about Linux being easy to install. I recently tried to update my Wubi-based install of Ubuntu, and got interrupted. What do I do? Head over to Windows XP (the first time in a month), uninstall and reinstall Ubuntu, and I'm back in less than 30 minutes.
When was the last time you could claim the same about Windows? :)
SOAD
· 1 year ago
What an asshole. Like most Linux Liars, you cherry pick the best examples and sweep the rest under the rug. Fuck you for lying to people. Rami Taibah? Go back to India.
Rami Taibah
· 1 year ago
@SOAD, It would of made your comment much more effective if you constructively debated my article instead of flaming. Lots of people over on this thread called me out on stuff in a a civilized fashion, which apparently you lack.
Back to India? Funny how you meant that to be degrading, yet India is considered one of the best if not the best when it come to IT. Haven't you heard?
koraycaglar
· 1 year ago
I have four computers, all of which run linux; while one of them dual boots both windows and linux. Two of my computers (a fujitsu notebook and an acer notebook) are used at the office. I can do all of my work with the maximum p.r.o.d.u.c.t.i.v.i.t.y (Office applications, erp server and clients, printers, etc. At home I've got a medion digitainer media center operated perfectly by ubuntu and a power-pc where I play games. I keep the windows partition on the power-pc just for two games: simcity4 (for me) and sims2 (for my wife); I can play all the other games on the Linux partition. As a linux user (not developer or geek) I can say that I have forgotten about headaches, ass-pains and any computer-related troubles since I tried linux in 2001. Thanks for the article RAMI. Soad: try to be a human, ok?
koraycaglar
· 1 year ago
By the way, any beginners who might be worried about adaptation or difficulties should try "pardus". It is a linux distro available in English, Spanish, German, Dutch and Turkish. The best thing is that it comes with drivers for Nvidia, Ati, atheros, broadcom, etc cards; and it can play dvds, mp3, divxs and any other media out of the box. The fastest and the best package manager (pisi) I've ever tried also comes with pardus. Just download and try: http://pardus.org.tr/eng/index.html
Rami Taibah
· 1 year ago
@koraycaglar, thanks for your comments. I have heard a lot of great things Pardus, I will eventually try it out lol.
About SOAD: Ignore him he is just a troll...
Dan
· 1 year ago
Heh. Nice arguments. Good one. I use Linux all the time when I can help it, it's just so damn cool! Fancy helping us make a REALLY EASY TO USE Web OS with an optional base underneath of Linux? Does anyone else fancy a go? If so drop me a line at dandart googlemail "dot" com (nospam haha)
vlad
· 1 year ago
I completely agree with you about the command line. It's not scary! There are thousands of sites with exact step-by-step instructions on how to use all of the linux distributions. All you do is copy and paste the commands into the terminal.
All Comments
Windows beats Linus hands down.
Oh and btw I just love how you just compared a person with an OS ;)
@42gems, yes there is pain, there is always pain no matter what the platform is, refer to the link I provided of my printer experience on XP. Linux isn't utopia, it's almost there :P
Windows is different than Windows. It operates differently than Windows. File systems and partitions function differently too. If you start using Linux, it becomes much easier to get around the more you adjust to the changes.
I don't think that just saying Windows beats Linux hands down is a valid enough point to just say and then leave. Most Windows users have been taught that just because it is the most prominent, it is the best. I disagree.
forza linux !!
What about the myth that Linux users are rare! Windows is now all the safer because people are using Linux; 99.9% are just totally unaware that they are doing so. The uptake in broadband connections has seen an overwelming increase in DSL modems, and which OS do these modems use for their firewall/router? Linux! Having a dial-up connection used to mean large event logs of PC based firewalls; with a firewalled DSL modem, those same event logs are completely empty. Perhaps the oxymoron is that most internet users perceive that such protection is entirely due to the quality of their XP/Vista based firewall.
http://nascent.freeshell.org/Linux/flaws.php
When would I want to do that? I've been using Linux for over 3 years and only when I was using Fedora did I need to go outside of the package manager and that was just for my TV card. My needs are greater than the average Internet/eBay/email/Documents-for-Church user. I use PCLinuxOS and for two years I have never had the need to go outside of the repository/Synaptic combination. You will always find people who need to download directly but they are not the everyday users.
With Windows you have no choice but to download directly from all the various vendors. As far as software management, there is nothing about Windows that rocks.
There's a list of almost 40 easy-to-install games (mostly using Wine 1.0) that work with no hassle and no configuration. The list is set up to make it easy for your relatives/friends to find what they want. I'm adding about 2 a day, but could use help if anyone wants to partner with me.
It's here: http://games.ibeentoubuntu.com
software depository has it all over windows, also have compiled stuff for my own web site, never was anything easier...love it
It works excellent, and in windows, it sucks!!!!!!
2nd. you are probably limited man with special needs, so that`s the reason why is so hard to install something on linux in your case.
3rd. next time don`t be so dumb and post stupid comments on this great blog...
Windows beats Linus hands down."
It's as easy as "sudo apt-get [software]"
Or in my case "pacman [software]" since I use Arch.
Chances are you can find whatever your looking for with apt-get or pacman. If you can't find it, it probably doesn't exist.
Here's an example: I wanted to install KDE (a graphical user interface. It's briefly talked about up above) simply because my eyes were getting tired of the command line. So all I did was "pacman kde4" and it was soon downloaded and installed, and worked. Honestly, how much simpler can you get?
RC
I totally agree, but how is this an argument for or against Linux? If I am naive enough to click on a random file promising pictures of nude celebrities in Windows, why would I not be naive enough to click on a questionable file on my Linux desktop and then enter the admin password when prompted?
"Finally, just the fact that Linux is Open Source means that more eyeballs can see bugs and vulnerabilities making it easier to patch. Any coder in his/her mom’s basement could issue a fix for the community."
To play devil's advocate, any coder in his mom's basement could see bugs and vulnerabilities in source code and create an exploit for them.
Item # 2 is an extremely broad generalisation, and I could make similar generalisations about Linux: Suppose the app you want to install is not in any of the repositories. Ok, do a Google search and find an RPM. Oh wait, I am using SuSE and this RPM was built for Red Hat; it won't install. I am not saavy enough to avoid installing Windows apps that are stripped down trial versions which infect my system with spyware, so installing a program from a source tarball is definitely beyond me.
"It would be a totally different ball game if these PC’s had no OS on them. Windows wouldn’t come out all that superior, I would even wager that Linux would probably do a better job."
So in other words, you would have to install the OS, and then possibly install drivers for hardware that was not auto-detected? You'd be in the same boat regardless of which OS.
"I am sure when it comes to community other proprietary operating systems do envy us!"
There are also countless blogs, forums etc devoted to Windows and Mac OS X. If I run into a situation on one of those platforms that is unfamiliar to me, I can Google it and find an answer. It's really no different.
"Long story short, after around 2 hours of trying to get an HP printer to work on XP, I gave up and plugged into an Ubuntu Linux Eee PC, it got recognized in 30 seconds!"
According to one of the comments in the original post about the printer, your mom's computer was displaying symptoms of being infected with a virus. So if you had connected the printer to another Windows machine that was not infected, most likely it would have been just as easy as it was with your Ubuntu box.
Linux comes preinstalled with drivers for most hardwares unlike windows where u have to download a seperate driver for your monitor, graphic card, chip set , keyboard,etc. When you install Linux you have a better chance of having a working system with almost everything u need than when u install a Window
Not only do I play tons of Super Nintendo, Nintendo, Playstation, Nintendo 64, Gameboy Advance, Sega, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, and Nintendo Gamecube games, but some of the Wii titles are starting to show graphics now too.
The other game you should always mention is Urban Terror. It's free, it's better than counter strike, and it runs great on Linux.
1) fonts suck compared to windows. Yes I've fiddled endlessly with different fonts, settings etc. but they suck, face it.
2) If you update your kernel in any way you are likely to break something that will be a heck of a lots harder to fix that something breaking in windows.
3) Windows is just better for games. I use linux for work, windows for play. What's the big deal with that?
4) Installing software is easy 'IF' it is in your package manager. If it isn't, joe average is screwed.
Who cares anyway, just use linux AND windows for whichever gets the job done best.
2) Installing applications on Windows is not that hard. Download the setup.exe and execute it. If your internet connection is bad, just maybe have to redownload it again - but I can't remember when was the last time I had such problem - even with 1 GB+ downloads over my Wifi connection. Oh wait - I had some problems a year ago with wifi, but that was a Linux. :)
I had a package manager under Fedora break shortly after installing Fedora. After trying to fix it for some hours (rebuilding indexes and other things suggested on forums), I finally gave up and reinstalled Fedora.
7) Windows has a huge community. Searching for an error on Google will give results.
8) If a Linux installation fail to install a hardware on a system, I could just give up right away. On Windows? Go to the hardware vendors website and download and install the driver. Simple things as getting a mouse to work as I wanted (scroll and forward/back buttons) took many hours searching Google and Ubuntu forums.
Windows Vista SP1 has great hardware support and can often download a driver from Windows Update, when it comes to some unknown piece of hardware. Actually I installed and setup a Media Center (including TV card and tune in channels, not sorting them) in less than an hour with Windows Vista and Media Center on a custom build PC. Windows downloaded and installed the TV tuner drivers automatically. The very same system I had tried getting MythTV to run on for days, getting only very bad results. Tried using different tutorials and Linux distros (even dedicated MythTV).
Fact is, when everything works fine Linux and Windows works great. When Linux fil to install some hardware, you often have to do "wired stuff" to get it to work. Windows often has a setup.exe to install a driver, because the hardware vendor has created such driver for Windows. Blame the hardware vendors if you want to, but that's not what the user will see - they will se a broken OS.
I wish for a Open Software world - but when a Linux user that has experience in using Linux and knows some of the fixes / shortcuts writes and article like this, I just have to response.
Sorry Rami - my 10+ different Linux installations with different distros have send me back to Windows again and again. I just don't experience the ease you describe here.
"unlike windows where u have to download a seperate driver for your monitor, graphic card, chip set , keyboard,etc."
I've installed Windows many times on various computers, and never had to track down drivers for my "chip set, keyboard,etc." At the worst I'd have to download drivers for video card and sound card, which never took me more than a few minutes.
"If a Linux installation fail to install a hardware on a system, I could just give up right away. On Windows? Go to the hardware vendors website and download and install the driver."
You certainly *could* give up right away, and if that's what you choose you definitely will not find a solution. You also *could* give up right away when you have a problem installing hardware under Windows, but apparently you choose not to do so. Maybe this is an indicator of why you have better luck using Windows?
"When Linux fil to install some hardware, you often have to do “wired stuff” to get it to work."
Such as? Finding a driver and installing it? What is "wired" about that? That's the same thing you would do under Windows. Ten years ago this might have been true; getting some hardware to work might have required a kernel recompile, but these days it's a stretch. Unless you have some exotic hardware, you're unlikely to run into anything like that.
Where the OP is making sweeping generalisations about Windows' problems, you are making sweeping generalisations about Linux. Nothing in either system is perfect; there are always going to be cases where some software does not work correctly, or someone has trouble getting their hardware to work. It's just the nature of technology.
I wouldnt say that it is simple, but it has been made simpler than it was 10 years hence. Just for the sake of the article I believe that what you say is kind of your personal opinion and since no body is to judge the same as its upto any body to agree/disagree with your opinions.
I guess i agree with you on some of your points and disagree on others on account of over-optimism...
Geeky IS the new sexy...
"You certainly *could* give up right away" ... but I did not. But I could just have done this, because of the problems I have had. Problems being graphics and sound drivers. Only bad to no result.
"Such as? Finding a driver and installing it? What is “wired” about that?"
Download packages, type in weird commands, that meant I had to download some more stuff... as I said, weird stuff, that I can't remember because of its weirdness. On Windows - download "driversetup.exe" .. next, next, next, restart, done.
"you are making sweeping generalisations about Linux"
No I describe what I have experienced with Linux. Not ten years ago, a couple of years ago to less than a year ago. At the most, I used Linux for about a month and a half, before I went back to Windows. To much work to get the things to work the way I wanted.
"Download packages, type in weird commands, that meant I had to download some more stuff… as I said, weird stuff, that I can’t remember because of its weirdness."
I see. By "weird" do you mean you had to cast a spell or something like that? Did it involve sacrificing a chicken?
"At the most, I used Linux for about a month and a half, before I went back to Windows."
I imagine someone who had only been using Windows or Mac OS X for a month and a half might find it daunting to do a thing like install new hardware, or install the entire system from scratch, etc.
Also in your original post you mention "my 10+ different Linux installations with different distros..." All that in about a month and a half? Wow. You must not have spent a significant amount of time with any one installation.
For someone who is not making generalisations, you are being very vague about what kind of issues you had... "weird stuff, that I can’t remember because of its weirdness" sounds very general to me.
Err the comment was about installing something *NOT* in the repositories. In this case you either pray that they've got debs or rpms, otherwise you have to compile.
@Richard Chapman
For those of us using distros like Debian and Ubuntu that don't have rolling updates, you will often find that the software in the repositories are several generations old (especially with Debian). There have been several times where I've had to install stuff that's not in the repositories because the version in the repos is buggy, too old, or not that good.
A good example would be Pidgin. When I was running Gutsy, Pidgin kept crashing MSN conversations whenever someone would 'nudge' me. Sure enough the issue was fixed in current version. But the Pidgin developers don't seem to like debs and only offer RPMs. I was then told about www.getdeb.net, which had it, but I then had to uninstall pidgin and all associated libraries before I could install.
If installing software was so simple, then why there a need for the LSB project (which has so far hasn't done much)? Installing software on Linux is only simple as long as the software has been built for the distro (and in some cases, the version) you're using.
As for software that is lacking. A good IM client that handles webcams would be a start. Everyone seems to think Pidgin is the best thing since sliced bread, but they don't have any plans for including video support. So that leaves me with Ekiga (oh wait, that doesn't support any of the common IM protocols) and Skype (which dies for me every 15 minutes or so).
In many cases "myth" 8 is actually a fact. In my experience, Linux works great on old hardware, but does not work well with new hardware (if at all). Bought a nice Gigabyte mobo a while back with the intention of converting my friend to Ubuntu. I couldn't even get it to boot and ended up having to install Windows. And to get my printer set up, I ended up having to set it up as a shared printer on my windows box. Suspiciously, every example I see about how easy it is to set up a printer mentions an HP printer...
I think I'm done with my rant now...
"By “weird” do you mean you had to cast a spell or something"
I don't remeber the command. It involed downloading and installing some sound related files. Making sure they where loaded into the kernel, editing some configuration files, making changes to a make file, before starting it. I don't remeber the details. Playing different types of video and from the web was troublesome for me as well, requiring me to download plugins and players that could play some video, but not all and often did a bad job of this.
"I imagine someone who had only been using Windows or Mac OS X for a month and a half...."
No, I have tried it over a longer period... what I meant was that I have tried over a couple of years, with my last try a under a year ago. The longest time I have had a Linux distribution running (Fedora I believe) was a month and a half.
Sorry for sounding general about the "weird stuff", but I tried many different things from allot of different forums, including the forums of the different distributions I used. I did not write in these comments (for this article) to get tech support.
I am not attacking Linux - I am attacking this article, that makes everything seems totally easy, when in fact I have yet to experience this. I think I have done more attempts than others even would have bothered with.
RT
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com
Installation is no different this way across OSes. You hope there's a package for your OS. If there isn't, you're going to have to go through a lot of trouble.
Windows: If there's no .exe or .msi, what are you going to do? Compile?
OS X: I recently saw a HowTo about getting wget compiled and installed.
"I tried Kubuntu and Mandriva a year ago, and I didn’t know anything. If only they came with a built-in OS that covers the basics. It was pretty complicated, especially the command line and stuff. It’s not that I’m too dumb to work Linux, I just don’t know how, and I don’t from where I’m supposed to get the info from."
I understand your position, and I do agree that trying out Linux is scary for the first time or two. Using Linux goes totally against the grain of what most of us grew up with, and you almost feel like your "cheating". Try to keep in mind that this is a situation which occurs whenever there is a monopoly on any market. Since Microsoft has the monopoly, and a strangle hold on the industry, it is the only OS most of us grew up with. Give Linux a serious try and most people end up loving it. Information about Linux is abundant using Google searches, Distro forums, Wiki's, Online Documentation, etc. Distro's like Mandriva, Ubuntu, PCLos, and MEPIS have turned Desktop Linux into an experience which is far superior to that of Windows XP or Windows Vista in really every way which really counts. Sure, there are some few things which Windows can do and Linux struggles with, like some DirectX Games, and there are many things which Linux can do and Windows absolutely cannot, like built in Security, Visual appeal/Eye candy (Compiz), multi taskability (more streamlined system resourcing), Multi-user modality (multiple user architecture), ease of application install (Package Management), multiple Window Managers (KDE, GNOME, XFCE, E16/16, Fluxbox, etc.), multiple kernel options (2.4 and 2.6 varients), INTEROPERABILITY as a fundamental goal from the very start (xen, vmware, virtualbox) very much unlike Windows. Those are just a very small list of some of the things Linux can do that Windows cant -- There are more! Much more! -- but those should at least get you started.
That said, I believe this article serves to gratify those who use Linux into giving themselves a big pat on the back, but fails to convince windows users to switch to Linux. I would really like to see an objective article written, perhaps one that has tutorials for both XP and Linux (for comparison purposes).
I personally think that Linux is ready for prime-time use and could potentially overtake Windows, but some work needs to be done on the PR side of things. Microsoft has billions of dollars to throw at marketing (yet still manages to lose public favor), while Linux really has no marketing. I really think an objective article could potentially convert some of the less tech savvy people, and subsequently kick-off a word-of-mouth marketing campaign. Also, it might ease some of the intimidation factor of switching to Linux for the first time. After all, Linux has a reputation for being the OS of the ultra-tech savvy, and that kind of reputation certainly won't get the average computer user to switch to it.
Also, please don't take my critique of the writer's style as being overly critical. While I dislike some of the elements found in this article, I'm greatly appreciative that articles like this are being written. I just want to see the best for computer users and the Linux community alike, and my stated opinions above are things that I think will help that goal be realized.
1-It's not really a point for or against Linux, all I was saying that currently Linux users are more savvy than Windows. If the situation was reversed then I believe that I can't claim such a claim. As it is, because Linux users are more savvy it's less prone...thats all.
2-True, and it could be exploited, but it would be patched by someone else as soon as the word gets out. Don't think one could claim that in closed source.
3-Yes true, I have done that before, but still Linux has the head start of 95% of software already in repos. Windows has 0%, package management is non-existent.
4-Yes that's what I am saying, and it doesn't conflict with what you are saying. All I said that Linux would probably do a better job in auto-detection. Harish already tried to explain that to you :)
5-The difference is, and I have been on both sides of the camp, is that on the Open Source camp you feel that people are willing to help, you can feel the enthusiasm. Also I always felt that Windows forums, help is more like stabs in the dark, since it's closed and error reporting is crap. I don't know maybe I am biased, but thats my experience.
6-Doesn't negate the fact that the installation process was a pain in the ass. Why should a user tolerate his/her hardware not working because there is a virus but not tolerate it because the need to download some package or tweak a bit here or there?
Anyways, I do not claim to be an authority, I am merely arguing from my own personal experience. And whether I am correct or wrong, I hope I will learn something new.
@Wraiyth Fortunately I do not use that stuff, and quite honestly I don't know what they are, so I really can't argue.
@Harman: Yes I think that documentation in Linux sometimes need to be toned down a bit, in a lot of cases the documentation is way too comprehensive, a simple thing you are trying to figure out gets lost in all the detail.
@rHy: once again I am a console gamer, so I wouldn't know :D
@klas: 1-Huh what are you talking about? I am totally content with my fonts. Do you mean fonts in Gimp and/or OpenOffice, or just regular GUI fonts? Because if it's the latter I am totally content!
2-If you break the kernel, just roll back to your older one. No biggie. Do whatever you did again. And besides kernel updates are done by your package manager so one shouldn't have a problem. If you do it manually, then you are probably good enough and know what your doing.
3-Never claimed that Linux is at par to Windows when it comes to gaming. All I said that Linux gaming is possible, contrary to popular belief
4-95% of the apps an average joe wants would be in the repos
@Anders Lund
1-Won't happen, distros usually make sure that it doesn't.
2-I didn't say it's hard, its just irritating. Anybody can browse and click, the process just takes longer, than a package manager.
3-In general out of the box detection, Linux is better. Windows has the advantage that the vendors providing the drivers. I know this doesn't concern the average user, but tell me which would fare better on two exact systems with no Internet connection? Anyways Rob has offered a valid question regarding this point. Why?
4-Thanks Anders for your comments I really appreciate it, but I am anything but an experienced Linux user. I switched to Linux in 2006 and never looked back. I can't code one line of code. However I am enthusiastic about Linux, and that has propelled me a lot to learn. I tried to make this article as simple as possible, if you notice I even explained some stuff like package manager and what not because I had non-linux users in mind.
@Rob (again) I might have made some sweeping generalizations, but I made them to prove a point. For example in the hardware problem, I did not mean that the hardware in Windows is crap because my HP didn't work on XP, but rather every OS has it's problems, but with one it's tolerated and the other isn't
@YSoSerious, Why is it so hard to believe? Actually that story has been part of my About page for so long, so obviously I didn't make it up for this article. All I had was some SUSE CD's and a Linux Format Magazine that took me through the steps, the trickiest part was of course partitions, but I got through. I don't see why its hard to believe. LOL ya I might be a tad too optimistic ;)
@Anders Lund (Again) Actually if you download a package you probably can just double click on it ;). Anyways why is the CLI not tolerated while the Registry is I wonder?
@Jeff, I am not all the experienced to be honest, I have been on Linux for 2 years or 3 max! However I gave it more than a month or two just like any other OS. Anybody migrating from Windows to Mac would get turned off. However they are expected to stick because they probably forked $1000. With Linux no one is sticking around because there is no financial loss, then immediately judged.
The truth is that MOST hardware will work with XP straight out of the box with no need to install ANY drivers. Most of the issues that users have are because of conflicts or crap they shouldn't have installed in the first place.
I have a Toshiba laptop that is only a few years old. When I got my new laptop, I used the old one to play on. First I install XP Media Center on it (from an MSDN subscription). It worked great, right out of the box. Recognized all of my hardware. The only thing I had to install in additon to XP was the software from Toshiba to support my hardware buttons. The I heard about freevo and decided it would be fun to try. I installed ubuntu and I actually have to say that I was impressed with how easy the install was and how quickly it went. I was also impressed with how mmuch of my hardware work right out of the box. However, the one thing that refused to work was my s-video output. After spending many hours following the directions from the "linux community" (who, btw, seem to thing that everyone knows how to compile packages and such) I decided that it just wasn't worth the effort. Linux has come a long, long way since I first tried to use it, but it is still far from a "easy to use" OS.
I think the package manager is a great thing, but much must be done in the search algorithms and the description of the packages. Generally you must know the name of the package you want to install, and you have to have some knowledge to know which one of the thirty options is the correct one. This is not always evident, and for "mother" users is quite a pain...
In general terms a google search provides much better guesses of what you want. Many, many times, I found myself discovering which was the package that fits my needs in google before installing it in linux. Therefore, I finally have to do all windows users do, and then go back to my system and install the package.
However, the thing that prevents me from simply removing my windows partition is the office stuff. OpenOffice and alternatives still are far behind MSOffice, in some simple things, which I would not call "functionalities". For example, draw a large circle in the presentation package of OOffice, and put it with a quite thick line. It becomes an horrible segmented circle. I cannot do my presentations with this degree of renderization.
Other things, like Pidgin, for example, are nice and they are ok for me, but we cannot fool ourselves thinking that they have the same functionalities as the windows counterparts (they have indeed some others, but they lack a lot of stuff).
Got a 4Gb SDHC card, windoze choked and died, was told it wouldn't work with Linux no support, worked first time got loads of files on it. Divx, Flac, MP3, Ogg.....don't have to work with overlapping windows... just setup 4 desktops, got No 1 with the interweb. No 2 with Rhythmbox. No 3 runs Gimp. No 4 Open Office Word can't fault it... its all FREE it works on older kit that windoze would drag to a halt with its bloat ware.
1) I know Linux distributions a pretty good at keeping users from being root. I spuspect that Microsoft will make the same thing in the next Windows version. We have seen the first step with User Account Control. By the next version of Windows, some more programmers make their program work with non-admin rights.
2) Irritating for you - normal for me. Yes, it's easy to have a package manager to do the job. But as someone else pointed out, the package managers don't always have the latest version of a program / component. This was actually a problem I ran into once. I don't remember it to be a virtal thing in the setup, but it was irritating.
3) In general, I don't want to setup a computer, when I have no connection to the Internet.
4) I hope that you don't have to code anything to become an expert on Linux. :)
5) The Windows registry is a very hated portion of the Windows system. :-)
You forgot to mention that Mandriva Linux is one of the easiest Linux distributions to install. You also forgot to mention that Mandriva Linux actually installs on a wider range of hardware than the three distributions you did mention. Yous neglected, also, to mention that Mandriva Linux is also easier to use than Ubuntu (which is marketed as the easy to use Linux), and that Mandriva Linux has been like this for the 10 years of it's existence (Mandriva Linux was originally call Mandrake Linux).
Mandriva Linux was developed with ease of use and ease of installation in mind, and while many other distributions have caught up to it in this respect, it hs, by virtue of the GUI tools, that no other Linux distribution has (drakconf), much easier for a new to Linux person to use, as unlike Ubuntu, Mandriva Linux does not require that a first time Linux user learn CLI commands.
So please when you are writing about easy to use Linux distributions, don't forget Mandriva Linux is still probably the easiest Linux to use, for new Linux users, and that Mandriva who build a technically excellent distribution in Mandriva Linux, are very very serious about ease of use.
with it’s Unix roots --> with its Unix roots
to it’s full potential --> to its full potential
Arguing that LINUX is a great desktop platform coming from a NOS is also an interesting approach. I'd say from the security paragraph POV you'd still want Windows as your Desktop and LINUX for servers.
http://blog.ibeentoubuntu.com/2008/08/fanboys-h...
If the reply preceding my reply is for me, then i want to tell you that the reply was to tell people that games do work fine on linux!
Probably you misunderstood it!
never mind, great post!
For a serious gamer, Windows is the only option. If you don't play games, there is no reason to use Windows.
Don't get me wrong. You sit down to get some work done and all you end up doing is playing around with the OS instead. Great fun but unproductive.
Seriously, I had to go back to XP to actually produce some work and left Linux for leisure on my spare box. Couple of days later I swapped OSs and boxes. My "production" XP box is now the spare one, sort of the working suit, the one that you do feel bad using, and the Linux box, now upgraded to the latest available (in my house at least) hardware is the enjoyable part.
Like I said though, my linux box hardly produces any work. Even non professional work I mean. I know how to rip a DVD and trascode it to divx but I'd rather have it done on the XP box and play a bit with iptables on the linux box.
See what I mean...
You left zareason.com out of the list.
BUT...if you can show me ONE music production software that equals at least FL Studio, you get the Nobel. Don't tell me about LMMS, Rezound or similar shitz! Those are for 8 year old kids. And Wine is not capable of running FL with 100 % capabilities and low audio latency.
I repeat: I love Debian as it is, but cannot say it has it all.
Linux is for people who like free stuff!
Linux is for people who are smart enough to try something new
Linux simpler one you got the hang of it
Linux has a community of a couple million members that are willing to help you when you are in need.
Apple can probably claim a hardware compatibility close to 100%: since they build most of the hardware themselves, there is virtually no hardware problem with OS X on any Apple machine. As for 3rd party hardware, the fact that they work with OS X is virtually always made explicit.
Linux is simple. But simple doesn't necessarily mean easy.
People tend to confuse easy with simple.
For example. It is simple to type a well syntaxed command in cli that performes a sequence of actions that would otherwise require opening a few windows, browsing their tabs, reading all the descriptions, checking a multiple of tick boxes, and click apply.
Simple but not easy, as typing the command in cli requires you to know exactly what you want to do, to have learned the syntax and all the programs involved in the actions you need to perform.
Conversely you follow an obvious procedure by opening a window, seeing what it does and chosing what you want to do.
The difference between windows and Linux is that the former is easy but not simple, while the latter is definitely simple and if needed can also be made easy.
And again i know its a user specific opinion but: i don't miss the console AT ALL when doing thing at my mac.
( so nice to drag and drop applciations and to install/uninstall them this way :)
For the pure enduser which doesn't want to "administrate" his OS but just "use" it, Linux has still way too go. But its on it way , where its leading we'll see about that.
BTW: OpenOffice is really nice ( and runs on my mac too :D )
so go on preaching i know how far linux is and so i stick with my mac :P
the package manager and installing new applications in linux is sometimes very very very hard and also about the look,
the look in windows is better, bc configuring the X11 to use the best of lcd, graphic card, fonts, .... is almost impossible.
Linux is for geeks.
When was the last time you could claim the same about Windows? :)
Back to India? Funny how you meant that to be degrading, yet India is considered one of the best if not the best when it come to IT. Haven't you heard?
As a linux user (not developer or geek) I can say that I have forgotten about headaches, ass-pains and any computer-related troubles since I tried linux in 2001.
Thanks for the article RAMI.
Soad: try to be a human, ok?
About SOAD: Ignore him he is just a troll...
I use Linux all the time when I can help it, it's just so damn cool! Fancy helping us make a REALLY EASY TO USE Web OS with an optional base underneath of Linux?
Does anyone else fancy a go?
If so drop me a line at dandart googlemail "dot" com
(nospam haha)